Time Warp

[Palehorse]

One of the most common arguments against evolution, as well as my own theory surrounding the melding of evolution and creation, is the whole "God created the heavens, the universe, and all within it in 7 days" passage that is contained within the "tool", (known to the zealots as "The Bible") Let's take a few minutes to really think this whole concept through.

A "man" sits down to document his perception of just how all of "this" came to be. Again, during the time when this is performed the man has no conception of space, the universe, the laws of physics, etc., etc.. And time itself (as we know it today) is a human creation; a measurement created by humankind that did not exist until we came up with it. There were no "divine clocks" and before the earth came to "be" there was no sun or moon to rise and fall. The seconds, minutes, and hours with which we measure each day did not exist until humankind created them. The creator had no need for these things, and unless there is a zealot amongst you that is willing to jump up and say that the creator handed these things to us, it leads to a simple question; when this guy wrote about "Genesis", how was he able to determine how "long" it took for the creator to accomplish it?

Now I know what some of you are thinking, "Divine inspiration", but while I am not above believing such can transpire I still find myself unwilling to just accept such an offhand way of dismissing the question. I believe the most likely explanation can be found in a "man" telling a "story" and using the words of the day to tell it. But let's take this a step or two further.

Perhaps the creator did create all that is in "seven days", but by what measure? Why, by the creator's measure of course. Since "time" as we know it is a human concept and did not exist before we created it, we cannot automatically extend the scale of measurement back to the point of origin for this planet, much less the universe. We could, but it drastically skew the reality of things, just as it has since its inception. Even if we stipulate that the "man" only wrote down what the "creator" told him to via some mystical means of communication or divine inspiration, the meaning of "days" is still in question since it meant to the man only that the cycle of day and night transpired.

It just appears to me to make much more sense that "time" as we know it is not the same as time from a creator's perspective. The scale has to be much larger! For example, we already know that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old, and the scientific evidence suggests the emergence of the first "humans" about 2 million years ago. 2 million "years" in the human measurement of time! So if we mark the first appearance of "man" as the end of the "7" day period of creation what is this telling us?

912,500,000,000 - human days between the formation of the earth and the appearance of the first man.

1,642,500,000,000 - human days since the earth was created. (Approximately)

912,500,000,000 human days divided by the 7 days = 130,357,142,857

Making the conversion from creation time to human time: 1 creator day = 130,357,142,857 human days.

Using this conversion factor this would mean that from the perspective of the creator the amount of time that has passed since he began the creation of all that "is", and right now, 13 days. 13 days since the earth was born.

If the man who wrote Genesis was divinely inspired then a whole lot was lost in the conversion of "days" from the creator's perspective to the human perspective. And if this even is close to being the correct conversion, then it allows for the evolutionary process to be a part of the creation process. It accounts for the various species and their evolvement into those plants, animals, minerals, etc. that we know them as today. It provides for the "time" necessary to let this happen. In addition, if this conversion factor is true, it makes one wonder why, (if 2012 is indeed the end of the earth), the creator would impose such a short expiration date upon his creation doesn't it? (From the creators perspective of time that is).

Of course this begs yet another question; was the first emergence of man the end of the seven day period, or must we take into account man's evolutionary period as well?  And is that evolutionary process completed? (It would be a fractional amount at this point in any case, and I'll leave that up to you math freaks to figure out).

To me, Christians get so caught up in the "holier than thou", "my way is the only way" thought process, that they cannot let thoughts like this even come near to germination within their minds. While science continues to try to prove the theories their minds and discoveries lead them to, they are so put off by the attritional aspects of Christianity that they too will not consider the possibility of both things being connected in any way. Because they are not embraced by either side, nobody will ever try to see if such a thing is a possibility. Instead each side is more concerned with proving their respective positions.

I certainly believe that a man named Jesus existed, just as the book says he did. And perhaps all of the things that are said within the book were things he accomplished or achieved within his life. Perhaps on the day of his crucifixion the skies did darken and an earthquake did occur; and having no other explanation for these things because science had not progressed very far in those times, there were no other explanations readily available other than to attribute these things to a divine source. Add to this humankind's proclivity for assuming literary license in documenting the tale, in order to achieve the desired level of emotion or affect, and you have the makings for a powerful tool with which to control the masses. Mystery, fear to be played upon, and punishment from a divine source to be threatened and held over the heads of those you wish to control.

[flybananas]

have you heard of the "gap theory"?


simple explanation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_creationism

[Palehorse]

have you heard of the "gap theory"?


simple explanation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_creationism

Yes, however it attempts to make the science "fit" the story, and the story "fit" the science.

In order to have any level of a shot at melding the two, both science and scripture should be complete and accurate.

[Terry]

"Man is human - - GOD is GOD!! if you think "U" can figure out GODS' plan for humans; "U' got another think coming.  HE is a divine being, which "WE" have no concept of:  I'll just say HE's done more for 'me' than anyone could expect.  I musta had a real-good relative some where back in time, since HES still treating 'me' with favor!
HE guides, directs, protects, and blesses 'me' each day - I'm sure not gona fight it!!!

[flybananas]

but terry - i thought our jobs as Christians is to be as Christ~like as possible. So, we'd HAVE to believe in the Bible.

Therefore, if there are inconsistencies at the very beginning of the Word of God, what does that do to the rest of The Book?!

[hammondjam]

It ALL depends on WHAT you are willing to believe at face value. If one is going to accept the Bible as word, they can't attempt to decipher it or otherwise explain it in human terms. If they do, there will constantly be a battle between their spiritual wants and their rational mind. That's the "hook". Anything that doesn't make sense gets filed into the "God's Great Mysteries" file.

No matter what anyone believes, modern churches today have a lot at stake when it comes to recruiting and keeping members. Televangelists have the MOST to lose it they can't keep those love offerings coming in exchange for gold plated doves. They will say ANYTHING to keep you afraid of the hereafter. This includes rewriting the story...

[Palehorse]

. . .This includes rewriting the story...

Which is already highly edited in the first place!

[Terry]

[mr.willy]

Palehorse are you a follower of Jim Meritt  :o :o :o :o

[Palehorse]

"To the last, I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee." ~ Melville / Moby Dick

[mr.willy]

Quote
"To the last, I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee." ~ Melville / Moby Dick

Palehorse those are the famous last words that was spoken by Capt. Ahab as he is about to die following the failed quest for revenge, are you about to die?