DON'T BLAME THE UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS...they didn't write the rulebook

[AdaLeft]

Be honest, if your children were hungry you'd wait for the greencard process, when you knew you could simply walk across a river and get a good paying job?  Please.  If my children were hungry I would do whatever I could to feed them.

I didn't say anything about opening our borders to riff raff, I said STOP Americans from doing drugs and end Mexican drug cartels.  Americans doing drugs are why they exist.

American corporations who hire illegal immigrants are doing so to get rich.  Why else do you think they hire them? Why hire expensive American, sometimes unionized workers, when you can hire cheap, illegal immigrant workers.  That is breaking the law to get richer, make bigger profits, capitalism.

Where did I insinuate I was jealous.  Where did I insinuate that I agree with "you work for it, and give it to me"?  Do you honestly think  immigrant workers who put in 12 and 18 hour days for pennies on the dollar compared to someone else aren't working for it? 

You are going on and on about the law, when it pertains to someone crossing the border, yet now you defend law breakers in the name of capitalism? it's OK to break the law if you are a citizen and it  makes more money and be more successful?  But it is wrong to break the law if you are poor and just want to feed your family? Is that what you are saying?

You mentioned Biblical views in another post, what Biblical view says it's OK to get rich off of the suffering of others, but is wrong to work hard to feed your family?

Can you provide that scripture?

jlmer, I am very aware of the founding fathers and our nation, and our laws, and our people, if you've seen me post otherwise, please elaborate.

I think you are confusing a couple of different talking points in your arguments.  I think you are being dishonest about saying you would wait for a green card before feeding your hungry children.  I don't think you have an actual grasp on the situation concerning immigration in this country, and most definitely I think you are being hypocritical by saying it's OK to break the law if you are rich, but not if you are poor.

[jlmer]

Don't try to put words in my mouth, you aren't qualified!
You're getting pretty silly in your would you's!ida
If my children were hungry I'd work at McDonalds, Wal Mart, mow lawn or whatever and if I had ideas of leaving the country I'd apply for a green card for Canada and do it legally.
So, what your saying is stop the drug cartels from coming in the country but don't patrol the borders or ask for ID.
Isn't that kind of silly?
When you say I'm supposed to give to the needy you're telling me to work and give the money to someone else. If you'd read statistics you'd see that most on welfare are capable of working but won't. It'd be nice if we could all start at the top but that's just not the way it is and if someone has hungry kids they should number one, stop having kids, number two there's plenty of jobs at Wal Mart or McDonalds. Too many can afford liquor and cigarettes but can't work or buy food? Bull!
What you think and what is fact are two different things.
I have Mexican and Chinese friends but they are all here legally and all are working at jobs, not picking peaches, etc. and are not complaining about getting into this country legally and are very proud to be here.

[AdaLeft]

Not qualified? please elaborate.

My question was if you lived south of the border, what extremes would you go to to feed your children. I don't think the prospects south of the border are quite so bright as to simply go to Mcds and get a job.

Again, for the third or fourth time, what I am saying about drugs is this, STOP AMERICANS FROM DOING DRUGS.  THIS WILL END THE MEXICAN DRUG CARTELS BECAUSE THEY ARE IN BUSINESS TO SERVICE AMERICAN DRUG USERS.  They supply because American drug users demand.  I've said it 4 times, do you understand what I am saying?

I'm not sure I said anything about you giving to the needy.  Jesus did though.

Again, I don't think you quite understand the concept of being poor, being desperate, having hungry children, and the prospect of crossing the river to make good money.

And like with drugs, the reason people come here illegally for work is because of the demand for cheap labor thanks to AMERICAN CAPITALISM.  American companies hire cheap labor to make more profit.  It's what being in business is all about.  Where is your anger toward the American capitalists getting rich off of doing something illegal?

[mr.willy]

Should we let bank robbers go free, because they just wanted a better life for themselves? The average illegal alien uses $23,000 per year in social services, while paying less than $2,000 in taxes


They use our emergency rooms and then don't pay causing the cost of health care to rise for those of us that pay for it. Then they are committing crimes in this country, Having children to intentionally get welfare... If these people want a "better life" then they need to work to change their country, not invade ours.

Hello jlmer, DO YOU REMEMBER ME  ;D

[AdaLeft]

Honestly Mr. Willy, when you wake up in the morning and you are poor and your children are hungry, I sincerely doubt that "changing your country" is going to feed them breakfast.

On the other hand, when there is work offered to you in America by Americans just across the border, and at much greater pay than would ever available at home, it's easy to see why they would cross the borders and work their butts off to feed their family.

A large part of our economy is designed around illegal labor.  It's part of the process and it's because of and controlled by American companies, in order to make more money.  That it also feeds families is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing.

The labor provided by and the sales taxes and money put into the economy by immigrant workers far exceeds the figure you mentioned.

You say they are "invading" our country, but that simply is a lie.  They are invited here to work by the Americans who need their labor.  They are part of this country, part of the work force, part of the economy.  You can paint them with stereotypical talking point brushes all you like, but that doesn't make it true.

If you truly wanted to do something about it, you would start with the reason they come to America.  That is, there are jobs for them here to work their asses off.  That is why they come, that is what they do.

[mr.willy]

AdaLeft, More than a million children regularly go to bed hungry in the US, according to a government report that shows a startling increase in the number of families struggling to put food on the table and Nearly half reported losing weight because they did not have enough money to buy food.

The number of children living in U.S. households where there were shortages of food at times rose by nearly one-third to 17 million, AND most parents who did not get enough to eat ensured their offspring received sufficient food but that more than 1 million children still suffered outright hunger.

Honestly Mr. Willy, when you wake up in the morning and you are poor and your children are hungry I sincerely doubt that "changing your country" is going to feed them breakfast.

Maybe AdaLeft you should WAKEUP and check out how many U.S. children miss breakfast.

[AdaLeft]

Yes, Mr Willy I appreciate your statistics, but it is completely irrelevant to the discussion we are having.

If you are a starving family south of the border, and your choices are decades of trying to change your country as you suggested, or simply crossing the border to get a well paying job offered to you freely and openly by the  Americans, I think any and all of us in that situation would take the job to feed our families.

Sadly, many Americans in poverty do not have the drive, willpower, or work ethic to get up off of their asses and work to feed their families, as immigrants certainly do.  Also sadly, many American companies that hire illegals cheaply, in order to make more money, do not offer the employment to those American workers.

[mr.willy]

Yes, Mr Willy I appreciate your statistics, but it is completely irrelevant to the discussion we are having.

If you are a starving family south of the border then come into this country legally not illegally...something that  AdaLeft doesn't understand !!!!!!!  ;D

[AdaLeft]

Again, as I've reiterated numerous times, when your family is hungry, when your children are starving, is it your intention Mr. Willy to wait for the legal process and/or fight for change?  Or is it your intention to get a job and feed them this morning?

It's sounds neat to say things like "change your country" or "follow the legal process", but in reality, when faced with poverty and hunger, those aren't nearly as viable options as taking the job offered to you by Americans.

Family values.  That is what this is about.  Feeding your hungry children.  Working hard to earn an honest living.  Those are the things this discussion is about.

[jlmer]

They aren't wanting their children fed, they're wanting the system to take care of them, educate them then support them.
If they're here illegally and working they aren't paying taxes although they have all of the benefits of the US citizen.
Our prisons are overfilled with them and guess who's supporting them....you, me and the working class of people that are here legally! If we're going to chuck out laws, why pick and choose, lets just upchuck them all.
I have a Chinese friend here who opened a buffet. He brought some of his relatives with him and they work for him. All are here legally. He's saved his money and bought a house and all of the people that work for him live in this house. It's a nice tri-level and they keep it immaculate inside and out. Now, this man owns several houses which he rents out, has expanded his business to two other towns. He would make a good citizen and is what it's all about. He goes to China to visit his mother about once every two years. He did all of this through ambition and legal means. Why should he be moved to the back of the line because of illegals? Which would you rather lived next door to you?

[AdaLeft]

So immigrants don't love their families jlmer? Is that what you are saying? Making a living isn't important to them? Feeding their children isn't important to them?  Is that what what you are saying?  Family values is a white American thing?  Really?

I wonder why illegal immigrants work 12-18 hour days?  I wonder why they work 6 and 7 days a week?  I wonder why they take such low wages?  I wonder who benefits from their cheap labor.

You keep speaking of "the law" they are breaking, but fail to mention the American companies who hire them for the sole purpose of MAKING LARGER PROFITS.  Isn't that a crime jlmer?  Aren't you concerned with that?

I appreciate you Chinese friends efforts.  Was he starving at home? Desperate?  He had enough capital to cross the ocean and get started.  Do you think that is the case for the average latino south of the border?

[mr.willy]

He did all of this through ambition and legal means. Why should he be moved to the back of the line because of illegals? Which would you rather lived next door to you?

jlmer  ;D you will have to keep on explaining everything to  AdaLeft that  they're here illegally and working they aren't paying taxes although they have all of the benefits of the US citizen.

[Terry]

 If we're going to chuck out laws, why pick and choose, lets just upchuck them all.
Now "U"r getting the idea jlmer -- let's all quit paying taxes, (( of all kinds )), quit work & live on welfare, rob-steal & destroy all large businesses ** starting with Wal-Mart, and be 'the citizens' AdaLeft wannts "US" to be by breaking laws, and taking advantage of all "US" citizens!

Wonce 'a' nut, now totally senseless  :o  ???  ::)  :-\  ::D:

[AdaLeft]

again, each of you keep speaking of the laws being broken by those immigrants taking jobs offered by Americans, for the purpose of feeding their families.

Meanwhile, where is your outrage over the American capitalists who want to make more money by hiring illegal workers?

Seems a tad hypocritical.  The reason they are here is to work, to do jobs given to them by Americans for American companies.

[AdaLeft]

jlmer  ;D you will have to keep on explaining everything to  AdaLeft that  they're here illegally and working they aren't paying taxes although they have all of the benefits of the US citizen.

All the benefits? really? are you sure about that Mr. Willy?
they are paying sales tax when they spend their money at Wal-Mart.  They are part of the economy  making products and providing services.

Yet again you fail to mention the responsibility of those HIRING illegals, and only setup the immigrant himself as the bad guy.  They wouldn't be here if there wasn't work, if they weren't being offered jobs by American companies.